Comment by Sciencemama on February 9, 2012 at 21:53

Ashley - I can relate a lot to your post. I see in you a younger version of me (albeit in a totally different field). My talent was in science. I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket now, though I was on the high school choir for a while. I used to think that if it weren't for the abusive family I got, I would be an entirely different person. Maybe I would never had gotten married, maybe I would have gotten my Ph.D. by now...blah, blah, blah.

But then I take a look at what I HAVE accomplished. All that I am was because no matter who else believed in me, I had one thing that most other people around me did not have.  Stubbornness. Persistence. At some deep level, not just survival skills, but a great desire to THRIVE in spite of my upbringing. My lost childhood can never be recovered. But I like who I am. I grew up to be pretty amazing, and I have had a very ambitious, though interrupted career. I think that a few things have to be done.

Make peace with your past, be proud of who you are, realize you are who you are because of where you have been. But...also realize you need to be the compassionate caregiver you never got. You have to mourn the neglected and abused child in you. It is painful...what you've been through. You can't recover the childhood you should have been allowed to be. But you carry the wounded child within you, and you need to care for her when she needs you. You can be to her now the mother and father you needed back then.

She wants expression...and you are giving her a voice through your music. That's a beautiful thing that you have found encouragement out there.

I don't know you...but for people like us, with the background we come from, do need to find mentors where we can find them. And sometimes it's hard to discern the good ones, from the ones that take advantage of us. We are a mix of strength and weakness, hope and despair. It's not about never being weak, or never despairing, but having the presence of mind to be our own care-givers and being careful who we trust.

There ARE trustworthy people out there...and there are less than trustworthy people out there. Over time, with practice, it gets easier to discern the people that enrich your life and those that suck the life out of it. Oh...and Julia Cameron's Letter to A Young Artist...and How to Avoid Making Art (or anything else for that matter) are great inspirational books for writers, artists, and I'd also include musicians too.

Comment by Ashley on February 10, 2012 at 16:59

Thank you for sharing these kind words with me.  It is extremely comforting to know someone out there has this specific combination of traits and hardships and who knows what it is like.  Even though I know everything that has been done has been done before, it started to feel like I was the only one.  All of these different things when isolated, there are people who have gone through those things, but when you add them all together, its a very rare combination.  Growing up with a mentally ill parent(s), being very gifted, and having drive unlike anyone else, sets a person apart from most everyone.

This is really dorky but there was this part in the beauty and the beast movie I was obsessed with when I was little.  It was where she sings, "I want adventure in the great wide somewhere / I want it more than I can tell / And for once it might be grand / To have someone understand / I want so much more than they've got planned."  She was my childhood hero. LOL

That is one of the things I struggle with the most.  Most of what I have accomplished is overcoming my upbringing.  I still have a long way to go and I've been working at it my entire life.  No one can really tell I've been through the sheer horrors that I've gone through.  I've seen so much evil, its unfortunate.  I have all of these things hanging over my head that I haven't accomplished yet... Learning the guitar, finishing college, learning french, learning the piano, and not to mention my career feels extremely delayed.  I feel like I should have been releasing this EP back when I was 19 years old.  I wrote the title track 8 & 6 years ago.  I know moving out on my own and creating an authentic life is an accomplishment.  I'm just tired of being so poor and barely making it.  I always feel like a gigantic weight is resting all on my shoulders.  If I didn't have such drive though, I probably wouldn't even be alive.

You make an interesting point about needing to be the parent to the inner child.  I got an apartment that the little girl inside always dreamed of, and I live with a dog and a cat like I always wanted (my dad is allergic).  They are the most affectionate animals I've ever met in my life, which helps me since my love language is touch and the only affection I ever got was physical abuse.

How do you find mentors?

You are right about that!  The older I get the more I see why the bible says the road to hell is wide.  There are so many sick & twisted people out there.  I developed a way to at least screen a man early on... If he reminds me of any negative person I've ever met before, run away immediately.  If I even get a feeling of "hmm that is odd", walk away that minute.  I had a female friend who gave me so many "That's weird" moments and I ignored every one of them, until the truth came out and I was right the entire time.  I'm so scared of people now and traumatized, I pretty much don't meet anyone or hang out with anyone.  It's rather sad.  :(

Part of me wishes I could figure out my mother's mental problem and move on, because then it means it was all her fault, not mine.  My best friend is going to school to be a therapist and she thinks my mom has slight sociopathic tendencies, because in the 10 years she's known me, she's never seen my mom show real emotion.  I never saw my mom laugh growing up, except this one time when she thought about tazering me.  Barely able to breathe and with tears in her eyes she said, "I can just see Ashley flopping on the floor like a fish!!!  Do the dishes!  No!  Bzzzz!!!!  HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!"  I was deeply disturbed.  She seems calm but she still does odd things.  Like on my birthday, I invited her to a dinner at home with my friends and she ditched me for my dad and threw a birthday card on the table, and literally the second after my friends left and it was just my best friend and I... She immediately starts yelling at me to clean up the mess in the kitchen and tears into me

Comment by Ashley on February 10, 2012 at 17:08

*she ditched me for a dinner out with my dad

*tears into me about other things.

My parents made everyone in the family believe I was crazy and mentally ill, but its ironic because the older I get the less they are able to hide behind me and blame it on me.  Now that I'm not around or I'm too old to cause "issues" in their lives, all the family is starting to see how insane they really are.  Family members, including two 12 year old cousins, have come to me and said they finally understand why I did and do the things I do, and they see what I have been living with all of these years.  My cousins told me after visiting for a week, "I'm so grateful they are not my parents!  I've never had to see anything like this at my house."  They couldn't wait to go home.

Comment by Sciencemama on February 10, 2012 at 19:22

No, it's not dorky to relate to movies, even sweetly sentimental ones like Beauty and the Beast.  They are appealing because they speak to us in very sentimental ways.  We all have a dream...but not all of us have the courage and stamina to make it to our dreams.

And there are PLENTY of distractions along the way.  Friends who are not healthy friends, friends who are jealous friends, friends who are sucking away your time, your energy, your happiness are not your friends.  Men who want to own you, your talent, your soul are not good either.

I do believe because of your innate drive towards your goals they will be fulfilled.  I would not listen to the voice that you should have already made it by now.

The mentor thing is rather tricky.  Because of your physical beauty (from what I can tell of your picture), you might find all sorts of men want to help you, in exchange for something, usually making you compromise either your body or your goals.  No, not all of them will, but from my own experiences, many do.

Even with the nice men, a lot of them have this outdated, "romantic hero image" of themselves and it's kind of instinctual for many men to want to (or dream of) saving a damsel in distress.  It's so embedded into our psyches.  This is not a recent development.  It has a LONG history and has been perpetuated by poets and minstrels and writers and moviemakers for eons.  It's part of the unconscious desires of a lot of men who still believe they want to protect women.  I think a lot of women, contrary to popular belief, still have a tiny seed of unconscious desire to be that damsel rescued. It's not awful, it's kind of sweet, until it happens to you with someone you don't want it to, or with someone who is an outright abuser.

I think one great resource for people like us to have is Boundaries in Relationships:  How to Be Separate and Connected by Anne Linden  It's not religious...but if you prefer one with a Christian angle, Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend is a good one too.

I really do commend you on trusting your instinct and avoiding people that give you bad signals.  Your body will respond to people and give you clues of who to avoid (anytime you feel worse after being with someone, feel guilty, feel a pang of nausea, or a tension headache, or feel bad just thinking about spending time with that person...is a huge clue).

Julia Cameron is a great source of mentoring through her books.  Um...I have something in mind to share with you of hers...whenever I get around to doing what I plan to do.  When I have it ready...I will share it with you.  I promise.  Give me about a week though. 

Here's at least a few ideas on how to find a mentor in the music business

http://www.ehow.com/how_7620872_mentor-music-business.html

Comment by Sciencemama on February 10, 2012 at 19:27

And Dr. Joe Carver has got some really good articles on 1) losers and abusers (and how to spot them) and 2) emotional memory management (for places we get stuck, and for depression management)

http://www.drjoecarver.com/

and, while this website is very, very cluttered...there's lots of good healing work from dysfunctional relationships and inner child work stuff at Joy to Me and You

http://www.joy2meu.com/

You don't even have to buy the book, just browse the site on your own time.  I've had it recommended from two different online friends who were going through there own healing work.

Comment by Sciencemama on February 10, 2012 at 19:30

And your story of your mom made me so, so sad.  It reminded me of how my sister used to tell me how my mother would institutionalize me and they would give me 21 shots because I was so crazy.  Yeah, the same sister who chased me in and around the house with a large kitchen knife.  She came through my window, broke a favorite figurine of mine...and that's the last memory I have.  I have no idea what happened, what made her stop.

Comment by Ashley on February 11, 2012 at 0:56

Thank you for that.  Those were the kindest words anyone has ever spoken to me.  It is obvious you are extremely introspective and have grown into a very wise person, despite your upbringing.

You are so right about there always being some distraction.  A lot of times I think, if I didn't have to work so hard to overcome what was done to me, I'd have more energy to devote to crossing off that list of things hanging over my head.  I suppose it is what it is. 

I'm obsessive about giving things meaning.  I cannot go through something for nothing, there has to be something I can look back on and say "I'm grateful for the lesson I learned" or "I'm glad I went through that."  One day I want to overcome all of this mess and be exceptionally successful, and then I want to dedicate the rest of my life to showing people it can be done.  Those people who are all alone or have no resources or feel like it's too hard and they can't do it... I can make an example out of my life that it is possible.  Then at least one day I can say, "I needed to accomplish the impossible all by myself, because now I can tell others it is possible for them to do the same."  I'm sure there are others who feel forgotten in society and have dreams for their life.  At least if I can turn it into something good, then there will be a purpose for all of the deep gut-wrenching pain I went through.  I have a philosophy now that every day I wake up still breathing, it means I need to keep fighting.

I've never equated it to that... I've always had problems with male musicians.  I haven't been able to find a guitarist to do a duo with because they always end up trying to date me, and since men don't listen to the word no... I'm forced to drop them.

Men still live in the dark ages, I think.  I suppose its best to be myself and if a man ever comes along who is forward thinking and we hit it off, then perhaps there is hope.  lol  Unfortunately due to my conditioning, my father trained me to be easily controlled by him and it ended up making me easily controllable by all sociopaths.  I think I'm getting better about spotting the dangerous men now.  I've actually scared off 3 of them in the last year.  I went on a date with one man and he was very good looking, extremely smart and very charming... the most dangerous kind of all.  When they are good looking enough and smart enough to pull off what other sociopaths could only dream of... run far far away.  He told stories very energetically and charming, but he did it with such a hidden ego.  Being around him was a massive rush that took about 12 hours for me to come out of... I pretty much knew then to stay away from him. 

I still don't feel I'm behaving assertive enough to tell them no and walk away the second I realize something is wrong, I usually keep talking to them and I don't really know why.  I think it's just habit.  The CoDA group gave me this pamphlet about co-dependency and the category I fit in the most was compliance.  I'm still learning that I have a right to stand up and say no and walk out of somewhere I don't want to be.  It just doesn't even occur to me.  My parents taught me that I was always wrong and everyone else was always right.  It's frustrating!

I will look up that Boundaries book you mentioned.  I looked at the religious one but I didn't like it.

It is strange how your body just knows something is wrong.  It's amazing what small body language movements we pick up on or their use of language we notice without consciously noticing.  I'm reading a book called "The Gift of Fear" and it talks about how we notice all of these warning signs without realizing it, and it is the moment we doubt our instincts that get us into trouble.  The book talked about teaming language.  Like if someone uses "us" or "our" or "we" too early, they are trying to use "forced-teaming language" where it invades your space and forces you to think of them as on your side.  I forg

Comment by Ashley on February 11, 2012 at 1:10

Oh wow!!  That's awful.  Sounds like your sister got some of the family genes.  :( 

Mentally unstable people project all of their bad traits onto the innocent people.  I never really got why they do that.  A friend of whom I realized was a narcissist, before she left she told me that I do nothing but use people, that I was living a lie, and acting like I deserved every bad thing that ever happened to me... All because I moved on with my life and stopped being "pathetic".  She also claimed I stopped talking to her in October, but that was actually her that did that to me.  It was really odd.  She told me I needed to give her an apology for what I did to the friendship, so I replied, "We both had a part in the downfall that happened."  She said back to me, "If that's what you want to tell yourself, fine.  Believe whatever you want."  The thing I hate is that I automatically feel like I did something wrong, and when I collect myself I have to convince myself that I was in fact right about her and she's just like my parents.  :(   When I look back on things that happened 1.5 years ago,  I don't know how I ever considered her a friend.  After I met my sociopathic ex and him and his religious family harassed me into marrying him because we were living together, I told her that I felt like he was the only chance I had at anyone ever accepting me and all my weird traits.  She said, "I understand and that's probably so."  It took me 1.5 years to realize how messed up that is!!!  She should be telling me, "Ashley!!!!  Stop talking about yourself like that.  You are way more normal than you think."  The fact someone like that skated by me for so long and she talked down to me for so long, and gave me so many signs that she secretly hated me the entire time... It disturbs me.  I latched onto her and idolized her and thought she was like the sister I never had.  I didn't pick up on any of the signs until it was almost over... Like how someone she is closed to had no idea that we were even friends.  The man looked at me funny when I said she was like my sister and he goes, "Aw that's sweet.  I had no idea you two even still talk."  I gave so much and helped start her dream of photography too, but once it got off the ground she didn't need me anymore.  *sigh*

Until I can get past this deep compliance issue, I'm really scared of meeting new people.

I've realized with my own family that I don't really need to hide how I grew up or protect them, because other people already see it.  My dad's old young female intern was so creeped out by him that when she said goodbye to everyone in the company, she wouldn't even look my dad in the eye or give him a hug goodbye like with the others.  This kid he sponsors from the little brother program even made a comment about how my dad talks about other women too much.  My mother used to throw hissy fits about having to stay in a 3 star hotel because it was beneath her... only reason she's mellowed out now is because she has no money anymore.  People can see through them I'm sure.  No reason to hide it.

Comment by Sciencemama on February 11, 2012 at 5:15

I heard of a lot of good things about Gavin DeBecker's books, so I am glad you are already reading that.

It sounds like you are doing exactly what you can to start learning about protecting your self.  For now, the fact that you are afraid of everyone is natural.  While it's painful, I think it's only a temporary condition, while you are re-building a stronger separation between you and other people. 

There are individuals out there who are on their own journey towards positive growth.  You have seen a few types of individuals already who are not capable at this time of growth and change.  I believe, from the literature that's out there, and from seeing my own family 'mellow out' over the years, that some types of personality disorders are not sustainable...or their bad karma catches up to them and they get what's coming to them and they learn the hard way.   I see all the time that my family reaps what they sow.

My oldest sister (the pretty and popular one) used to be so cruel to me and told me lots of  nasty things.  She married by the time she was 21.  Her oldest son was born with cerebral palsy.  I don't think this was a coincidence.  Her life had been challenged greatly by his challenges.  Her 'so perfect' marriage was over within 10 years, partly as a result of her terrible personality and my mother's interference in her marriage.  After she got divorced my mother turned on her and treated her like garbage.  In some ways, these things have softened her. 

My mother got her comeuppance by my sister, because in one instance where she was insulting not only my sister's boyfriend, she slapped my sister.  The skeezy boyfriend suggested she call the police.  My sister did, and pressed charges.  My mother, the spoiled only child, the one who could do no wrong, who could get away with every cruel thing she did and taught my sister everything she knew about manipulation, spent a night in jail.

I tried, really hard, not to take a little pleasure in that, because I know that would be so wrong.  I did feel bad for my mother...but still, I'm glad a little it happened, because I think it humbled her.

But...I do think there are people out there that truly do not deliberately harm others.  They make errors of judgment...they occasionally say or do hurtful things, but they know how to apologize and make amends.  There ARE people out there willing to grow. 

For me, I want to start looking for friendship with those who are into mindfulness, study Eastern religions, who do yoga, or into healing arts like massage.  I have had two good friends who were the gentlest folks you could ever meet who were into Eastern spirituality and healing work (Chris and Michelle).  Michelle gave me a beautiful massage once with chakra balancing.  The last I heard Chris had traveled the globe over on a spiritual quest.  The thing he told me?  You don't have to go to the Sahara to find transformation, but it certainly was an amazing thing to experience.

Comment by Sciencemama on February 11, 2012 at 5:34

One other thing that's tricky not to get too caught up in...seeing everyone through the lens of pathology.  In healing work, sometimes that's all you see are people who are sociopathic.  Like my therapist, one who specializes in trauma recovery, we ALL have residual borderline tendencies.  We are all a little narcissistic at one point or another. 

Even the personality disordered individuals got that way because of THEIR poor upbringing.  We can have compassion for them while protecting ourselves. 

And, we will meet all kinds of people on our journey who can show us the way we need to go. One of my best spiritual teachers has been one who has made an awful lot of mistakes in his own life.  He reminds me so much of the character in the movie Eat, Pray, Love named Richard from Texas.  And as good as the movie was, the book has some really great insights into personal growth.

This is the right time to work on you and you have the time and space to do it.  Eventually, you'll be strong enough to trust again.

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