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Permalink Reply by spiritj on November 8, 2011 at 23:13

From the mainstream perspective, OEs are often viewed as a social liability in adults (hence the somewhat derogatory term over-excitable.)  However, it is important to note that the capacity for deep, sustained interest and excitement about an activity typically drives the person experiencing it toward greater skill mastery and measurable achievement.

For that reason, I think I would like to privately refer to OEs as, perhaps, the capacity for Deep Excitability, or maybe Super Excitability.  It may seem paradoxical that an individual who seems physically and intellectually robust could have sensory or emotional sensitivities, but I would argue that these sensitivities are the very qualities which strengthen and deepen such an individual's humanity.  I would argue that if productively developed and trained, these qualities are likely to manifest in the form of advanced human virtues such as compassion, altruism, etc.

Of course it isn't my goal to preach to the converted here at MGL, but rather just to add greater balance to the point of view expressed by Dabrowski--which, I feel labels us from the perspective of the mainstream culture and "average" sensibilities--as if an individual's neurology or biopsychosocial makeup were determined solely by Majority Rule.  Actually I suspect that when so-called OE's are appropriately developed, they might predispose us to greater internal locus of control--since we are often motivated by individual sensibilities and non-mainstream enthusiasms.

Professor of Psychiatry Kay Jamison refers to the positive aspects of OE as "exuberance," in her 2004 book by the same name.  Read a Google Books excerpt here:  http://books.google.com/books?id=U-LpCzOiDngC&lpg=PP5&ots=i...

Here is a link to a Youtube video of Dr. Jamison speaking on exuberance at the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoXAK9qbRh4 

She correlates the passion for scientific discovery with the sort of transcendent joy experienced in moments of deep spiritual knowing; in moments of wonder and delight in the natural world, etcetera.

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Permalink Reply by Dan F on November 9, 2011 at 19:35

Not to disagree, but just to be fair, I thought I might point out one thing that is often ignored when considering the unfortunate choice of words used in over-excitability:  English was the very last language that Dabrowski learned.

In short, I'd say it's a terrible choice of words, but not Dabrowski's fault really, and certainly the mainstream view does not seem to match his writings.  On the contrary, we're referring to the man who wrote "Be Greeted Psychoneurotics" to tell people to rejoice in their sensitivities and their development potentials, their maladjustment to what was wrong and their positive adjustment to unreal ideals.  http://positivedisintegration.com/greet.pdf

Optional translations that could have been chosen rather than "over-excitability" include heightened or increased sensitivity, and indeed these are the kinds of words that have been used in other translations.

"Prześledził m.in. biografie dwustu losowo dobranych ludzi, uznanych powszechnie za ludzi wybitnych (u 97% z nich stwierdził cechy wzmożonej pobudliwości psychicznej)."

Tracing the biographies of two hundred randomly selected people generally regarded as eminent people,  ([he found] in 97% of them increased excitability of psychological qualities/characteristics).

http://www.dezintegracja.pl/?o-teorii,7

So while I completely agree with the assessment that the mainstream has picked up on this use of the prefix "over-" as if it meant too much (and this includes many professionals), Dabrowski was clinically comparing the levels of neurological excitability with average.  The word choice "wzmożonej" to mean increased does not in any way imply excessive.  Pobudliwości is also the word chosen in Polish for the neurological meaning of excitability.

From the research I have done for information on TPD, I believe that this is an error perpetuated by and to English-speakers.  Unfortunately, English speakers account for over half of those who have done derivative work following on Dabrowski's.  However, it may be that since the clinical term for the energising of a nerve by a stimulus in English is excitement, Dabrowski being very precise, chose it for the clinical meaning.  While many of the people working with his research today are trained in psychology, it must be remembered that Dabrowski was not only a psychologist, but a psychiatrist with a medical degree and a special interest in neurological development in youth.

"Be greeted psychoneurotics!

For you see sensitivity in the insensitivity of the world,
uncertainty among the world's certainties.

For you often feel others as you feel yourselves.

For you feel the anxiety of the world, and
its bottomless narrowness and self-assurance.

For your phobia of washing your hands from the dirt of the world,
for your fear of being locked in the world’s limitations.
for your fear of the absurdity of existence.

For your subtlety in not telling others what you see in them.

For your awkwardness in dealing with practical things, and
for your practicalness in dealing with unknown things,
for your transcendental realism and lack of everyday realism,
for your exclusiveness and fear of losing close friends,
for your creativity and ecstasy,
for your maladjustment to that "which is" and adjustment to that which "ought to be",
for your great but unutilized abilities.

For the belated appreciation of the real value of your greatness
which never allows the appreciation of the greatness
of those who will come after you.

For your being treated instead of treating others,
for your heavenly power being forever pushed down by brutal force;
for that which is prescient, unsaid, infinite in you.

For the loneliness and strangeness of your ways.

Be greeted!

From: Dabrowski, K. (1972) Psychoneurosis is not an illness, London: GRYF Publications.

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Permalink Reply by spiritj on November 15, 2011 at 0:31

Thank you, Dan, for giving us better perspective on the context in which Dabrowski did his research and publishing.  

When I first read his poetic salutation dated 1972 (quoted in your post above,) I found the use of the term "psychoneurotics" to be a rather condemnatory label--even though the paper from which it's taken is titled, "Psychoneurosis Is Not An Illness."  Even though Dabrowski seeks to understand and even to champion the cause, I'm not sure that this particular English/Latin word choice is descriptive enough to be reclaimed by the gifted community.  

The term psychoneurotic could be applied to many forms of exceptionality--thus, I don't think that it specifically describes intellectual giftedness.  I find the salutation to be more in the spirit of "Hail, Fellow Outsider Well-Met."  It is an ode to the Inner Geek who may never be chic.  

To paraphrase Lisa Simpson (who lost a school science fair competition to her populist brother Bart, because her project was considered "too gloomy,") "I didn't get *help* from a nerd--I'm *my own* nerd!" 

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Permalink Reply by Frank de Mink on December 15, 2011 at 9:41

Overexcitable as associated with too much, abnormal, a disease?

We have chosen to describe the superstimulatebility as sensibility and intensity.

Gifted are intense: intensity is a positive to neutral state, and seems more than only a response to outside stimuli also an action from inside to the outside. In agreement with the assumption that both can be the source.

We refer to: A touch is a blow...

in: The truly creative mind in any field is no more than this: A human creature born abnormally, inhumanly sensitive. To him... a touch is a blow, a sound is a noise, a misfortune is a tragedy, a joy is an ecstasy, a friend is a lover, a lover is a god, and failure is death. Add to this cruelly delicate organism the overpowering necessity to create, create, create -- so that 
without the creating of music or poetry or books or buildings or something of meaning, his very breath is cut off from him. He must create, must pour out creation. By some strange, unknown, inward urgency he is not really alive unless he is creating.” 
― Pearl S. Buck

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Permalink Reply by Frank de Mink on December 12, 2011 at 1:24

OverExcitabilities in higher levels will not be easy to recognize, because:

Oes are isolated at low levels, but integrated at high levels.

From level 3:

1.Psychomotor: transformed by the emo. and intell;  (from level 4):totally dependant of the other OE

2.Sensual: Strong link with imag. and emo;               (from  4) : never isolated

3.Intellectual: intensifies disintegration of other OEs.        Conflict and co-operation with emotional OE.           Development of intuitive intelligence next to analytical. From 4: combined with imag. and emo. OE’s.                           Intell-imag-emo --> extreme creative intelligence

4.Imaginational: combined with intell. and emo.      Creative instinct works with instinct for self perfection.

5.Emotional: Emotional OE coordinates with intel. and imag. Cause spontaneous disintegration of other OEs.                 from 4: dominant dimension of development

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Permalink Reply by Frank de Mink on December 12, 2011 at 1:38

Overexcitabilities might be seen as tragic gifted. Resulting behavior is often seen as psychic disturbances by psychiatry in our countries.

a)Psychomotor: hyperactive, fidgety, restless, impulsive (AD(H)D?)

b)Sensual: choosy eater, overreactions with physical discomfort (ASS?)

c)Intellectual: head in the clouds, no attention for environment (Gifted, isolation?)

d)Imagination: daydreaming (ADD or Dyslexia?)

e)Emotional: moody, prone to depression  (ODD, Personality disorders?)                 

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Permalink Reply by Dan F on December 13, 2011 at 11:28

That's very true, Frank, and I think it's difficult to raise the awareness of the positive reactions to overexcitabilities. This again may lead from the use of the prefix "over-", but simply put, while negative effects are readily noticed it's not as apparent to outside observers that heightened neurological capacity comes with positive effects.  It's nearly impossible to explain an appreciation of thousands of shades of colour or the ability to replay music perfectly in one's mind, or indeed the richness of thought that leads people with intellectual overexcitabilities to spend so much time looking inward.

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Permalink Reply by Frank de Mink on December 13, 2011 at 14:21

Hi Dan,

Thank you for focus on the difficulties to outside observers. I agree. And as I see more messages of this type going around it seems we are part of a trend. More focus on the plasticity of the brain (Dweck) which may help us, including

• the High Sensitive Person (Aron) (not the same concept and approach as OEs),
• the Gift of AD(H)D (Honos-Webb) and
• The successful introvert,
• High functioning Autism (Asperger Syndrome) 

might all overlap with gifted and have similar messages.

The trend might be: these concepts change from abnormal towards a quality. So it seems my focus is not outside observers, but shakers and movers of the topic: e.g. experts in G@T.

I am still on the topic?

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Permalink Reply by Sciencemama on December 13, 2011 at 15:40

Frank,

Even if you aren't still on the topic, it's useful to have this pointed out.  Many people do confuse Highly Sensitive and sensory processing disorders with sensual OE's, hyperactivity with pyschomotor OE's, etc. They might very well not be.

Then again, they might be gifted AND have these other things too.

There are strengths in many disorders, unless of course, it renders a person completely non-functional. 

Take for instance, the gifted person with bipolar (manic depression).  No matter how gifted a bipolar I person might be, ignoring the reality of the bipolar is a costly and devastating proposition.  There is a small window of functionality surrounded by unbridled manic energy (leading to spending sprees, and hypersexuality with potentially dangerous partners) and debilitating depression.  The upside to manic depression is that there is spurts of enormous creativity.  The problem is when the pendulum swings too far into mania or depression and it becomes destructive.  They are at a greater risk of suicide.  Also, many bipolar individuals self-medicate with drugs and alcohol.  They might deny having a problem with their moods, but their self-medication is for just that purpose - regulating their moods.

Giftedness may be rendered almost useless if you can't modulate the other characteristics and struggles an individual has.  Giftedness can't be expressed in creative ways while other internal factors prohibit this expression.  (This also is true for external factors - like lack of support, finances, opportunity).

Whatever information we can share regarding what giftedness is, and what it is not, I think will help the community of MGL make some decisions about how to address their struggles and make sense of some of their experiences.  Most unrecognized gifted children grow up to be very confused and anxious adults.

And there remains an ignorance to what exactly are the essential ingredients to raising healthy, resilient children with just enough healthy self-esteem (but not narcissism) and the ability to self-regulate and achieve self-control.

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